God is calling His Remnant out of the established church
Posted by appolus on July 30, 2009
Today we are witnessing an interesting phenomenon where many – God knows the
numbers – are leaving the relative structure and security of organized
churches, denominations and memberships, to follow hard after their God, to
a wilderness of sorts, a strange and unfamiliar place little understood by
establishment Christianity. Perhaps the Lord is calling His remnant to
Himself in simplicity and purity at the end of this age? Perhaps the
prophetic ministry from outside the walls has begun, or at the very least is
being perpetuated at this time? Perhaps a time of final testing for the
church and Israel is poised to begin? Whatever the ultimate reason, many are
coming out, and almost immediately they will need to adapt to this new and
strange environment where the Lord alone is all that they have.
The Lord’s Wilderness – W.E. Smith
July 24, 2009 by W.E. Smith
www.livingwalk.wordpress.com
“Beware that you do not forget the LORD your God by not keeping His
commandments, His judgments, and His statutes which I command you today,
lest-when you have eaten and are full, and have built beautiful houses and
dwell in them; and when your herds and your flocks multiply, and your silver
and your gold are multiplied, and all that you have is multiplied; when your
heart is lifted up, and you forget the LORD your God who brought you out of
the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage; who led you through that great
and terrible wilderness, in which were fiery serpents and scorpions and
thirsty land where there was no water; who brought water for you out of the
flinty rock; who fed you in the wilderness with manna, which your fathers
did not know, that He might humble you and that He might test you, to do you
good in the end- then you say in your heart, ‘My power and the might of my
hand have gained me this wealth.’ (Deut 8:11-17)
For students of the Bible, the concept of the wilderness should be most
familiar. Abraham left his homeland and family to venture forth into an
unknown land of promise. Moses left the palatial comforts of Egypt to dwell
among the rocks and wild beasts. The tribes of Israel wandered 40 years in
the wilderness prior to occupying the land of Canaan. Job lost everything
that He might glimpse the Eternal One at the edge of the valley of death.
David fled from Saul and spent years eluding him in the pathless wilderness.
Most, if not all of the Lord’s holy and faithful prophets abandoned all they
knew and loved to live alone with the Lord in His company and care. John the
Baptist conducted his prophetic ministry as one “crying in the wilderness”.
Jesus was led by the Holy Spirit into the wilderness forty days and forty
nights, tempted of the devil and ministered to by angels. The Apostle Paul
spent much of His life and ministry imprisoned, isolated, imperiled and
alone. And the woman of Revelations 12 is sheltered and nourished in the
wilderness immediately prior to our Lord’s return to this earth.
My friends, this wilderness theme runs all through the Scriptures, and
through the varied lives and experience of God’s children. It has always
been an essential concept to be grasped, yet I believe this may be even more
true today. It is vital that we understand what it teaches us about how our
Heavenly Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit bring us to true faithfulness
and blessing.
Now the concept of the wilderness as it affects others is one thing – yet
the actual experience of the wilderness as it impacts our own life and faith
is quite another. It is a very intimate matter you see, challenging
everything we think we know about God and the Christian life, the church and
community, the actual and the superficial. It is wrought with difficult
questions and seemingly few answers. It is typically invested with profound
emotion, loneliness and even confusion. And it is more of a valley than a
mountain-top, with again, seemingly little evidence that heaven is still
there, and that Our Lord is still caring for His sheep.
To understand the wilderness we must go deeper and further into the very
heart and mind of our Heavenly Father, as He loves and nurtures His
children. We must look beyond our teachers and books, for they – by and
large – don’t really understand it. We must divest ourselves of any fluffy
religious notions that really don’t get to the heart of a man or what really
happened in that garden. We must also resist the theological urge to
generalize and systematize, as God’s wilderness is as varied as His people,
and as unlimited as His vast, creative mind.
We are addressing this topic generally, in order that we might understand it
better. We are also more specifically hoping to edify and encourage those,
who like ourselves, find themselves outside and apart from the traditional
church organization, having left it behind in order to more perfectly hear
and follow the Lord.
The Exodus from the Organized Church
Today we are witnessing an interesting phenomenon where many – God knows the
numbers – are leaving the relative structure and security of organized
churches, denominations and memberships, to follow hard after their God, to
a wilderness of sorts, a strange and unfamiliar place little understood by
establishment Christianity. Perhaps the Lord is calling His remnant to
Himself in simplicity and purity at the end of this age? Perhaps the
prophetic ministry from outside the walls has begun, or at the very least is
being perpetuated at this time? Perhaps a time of final testing for the
church and Israel is poised to begin? Whatever the ultimate reason, many are
coming out, and almost immediately they will need to adapt to this new and
strange environment where the Lord alone is all that they have.
It is quite common to hear the following sentiments today from God’s people
-
“The glory of God has left my church.”
“Jesus is no longer at the center of our fellowship!”
“My church has aligned itself with the ways of man and the world.”
“My church functions more like a club, than an expression of the life of
Jesus Christ!”
“The Holy Spirit has gone out of the church.”
“The church is of the world and the world is in the church.”
Indeed, the world has infiltrated the church to such a degree, and
corruption has become so rampant and pervasive that it is practically
impossible to keep abreast of all of the apostasy and defilement within.
By much spiritual evidence and observation, the ‘church on the corner’ is
either dying or already dead. This is obvious and apparent to any with eyes
to see, to those with true spiritual insight. Only those with a vested and
carnal interest in perpetuating the corpse, and holding it up with strings
will deny this. True spiritual discernment speaks otherwise however. A.W.
Tozer and Leonard Ravenhill, for example, 20-40 years back can still be
heard on creaky recordings woefully proclaiming the life of God pouring out
of contemporary Christianity. Theirs were the prophetic forewarnings from
within, all decrying the forces marshaled against the historic church -
materialism, humanism, pragmatism, psychology, modern marketing, etc. Then,
such corruptive forces were pressing at the edges; today they are rooted
into the very fiber of institutional Christianity, across all lines,
divisions and denominations. Those who would weep the tears of our Lord are
indeed weeping, with great heaviness of spirit and heart.
“Come out of her my people!” is the message of the hour! Come out of her,
lest you share in her sins! But to where and to what – this is the question
of the hour? Quite often when the Lord draws us out of something and back to
Himself, we are led by way of the wilderness. It is this wilderness that
concerns us here, and by His grace we will endeavor to more completely
comprehend it.
What it is and Why
In this short piece we would like to touch on some key elements in this
wilderness experience, including what it is, and why our Lord, in His
infinite and loving wisdom might draw His children into such a condition.
Perhaps you reading this now are in what you might consider a wilderness,
alone with God, cut off in large measure from all you have ever trusted or
known. Nothing now seems to make sense, even your religion or relationship
with God. Everything appears dark and the way forward seems unfamiliar. Your
faith is challenged like never before. The ground beneath your feet is
shifting like loose sand. You turn to fellow saints for help and
encouragement, but they just don’t seem to understand. All they seem to have
is an argument or proof text trying to convince you that you are either in
sin or rebellion.
My brothers and sisters, we know that you are out there, and that you may be
at this moment feeling isolated and alone. It is our hope and prayer that
you will be encouraged and edified by the fact that you are not in any
manner abandoned by our Good Shepherd, and that you are still very much in
His capable and loving care. This wilderness you are in is not a denial of
Christ’s blessing on your life by any means, but living proof that He loves
you more than you can ever know. Indeed, the wilderness – however it is
applied to the servants of the Living God – is first and foremost God’s
idea. It is His wilderness. It is His way back to Himself. He needs to know
that there are no circumstances, nor people that will cause you to deny Him.
He needs to knows that He alone is your first love. He needs to know that,
stripped of all religion and corporate piety, and spiritual machination, you
will seek Him alone, for Himself and His glory. He needs to know that you
love Him for Him and not just His gifts, and all of the many things church
may have restored to you.
All of the biblical examples given above can provide us with valuable
insight into what the wilderness is, what it looks like (in general terms,
as we are also acutely aware that the wilderness experience is manifest
differently for each of us as God’s children) and what we can expect to find
there.
To begin, it is a new and strange place – a circumstance or condition that
is foreign to all we know. Consider Abraham and Moses leaving the
familiarity and security of their home and family and all they have ever
known to venture out into a new and strange land. For the most part they are
alone in the wilderness. They often don’t know exactly where they are being
led. There is little to no explanation. God Himself has called them out,
drawing them to Himself that they might follow Him in simple faith and
trust. He is their way, and they must look to Him in perfect confidence that
His guidance and provision will lead only to blessing
The Lord, in drawing us to Himself often brings us through the wilderness.
Here we learn not to trust in ourselves, but in Him alone. He draws us out
of wherever we are that we might learn to lean on Him for everything. He is
now our way, and our provision. It is a time of total and absolute
dependence on Him. He draws us away from all of the props and dependencies,
our friends and family, our everyday structures and support mechanisms, that
He might be the All that holds us up, and maintains our lives. We must learn
to trust God rather than circumstances or people. We must look for the bread
that comes from heaven and the water that comes from the rock. We must turn
our backs on all we know, even those we love, so that He might know that we
love him first and most, that He is enough if everything and everyone else
is stripped from us.
I have been considering something that A.W. Tozer once said in a sermon, and
it was this – “What if all we Christians had was God?”. Not His things, nor
blessings per say, but only Him. Not a hundred fired up preachers or
prophets telling us about Him, but only Him. Alone with Christ, and He
asking us “Do you love Me more than these?” as He did to Peter. “Am I enough
for you, or are there other things you desire?” My friends, this is
essentially what the wilderness is for – to provide our Lord with the answer
to this question.
[Have you ever pondered the idea that the modern church - with all of its
structure and activity and paraphernalia - is endeavoring to answer
questions that God has probably never even asked? Something to think about.]
All of my life I kept looking for Him in other things – people, groups,
movements, trends, systems, you name it. Yet in the end He has brought me to
Himself, quite part from anything else that may claim or represent Him. This
is the wonderful thing about the wilderness – it reduces everything down to
bare-boned, spirit-touching-flesh reality. It clears away all the haze and
noise that may be preventing you from seeing and hearing God.
If you have become a Christian, for example, to gain friends and community -
if this is what you seek primarily – then the wilderness will isolate you so
that He is your only friend and fellowship. Then our Lord will ask you
bluntly – Am I enough for you? Do you Love me more than these?
If Christianity and church membership is mostly about a healthy environment
for yourself and your kids, for activities and programs, then here again,
the wilderness will reveal this for the idol it is. The Lord must know, you
see. And we must know also, and many will admit that so much of what we do
as “church” today keeps us from coming into direct and personal contact with
essential things.
The wilderness is a wonderful instrument for stripping away all of our
dependencies on things and shadows isn’t it? It is about survival and
spiritual reality, life and death, hunger and thirst, breathing in and
breathing out. Is He your All, my brother? Does living for Him alone define
you my sister? We are religious by nature, but only His nature in us,
refined and perfected by His Holy Breath and Spirit will satisfy the burning
ache in your spirit. We must have Him, and know Him, and want Him, and trust
Him, before He will grant to us all of the many blessings pouring out of
Him.
Is the wilderness a pleasant place? Not really – not how the world measures
things anyway – for only here it seems do we come to recognize what we are
actually made of, that we are carnal and earthbound, that our faith is
largely theoretical, not tried and tested in the fiery furnace of
experience. Like earthbound Jacob, wrestling with the Lord, we come to the
end of ourselves that He might begin in us anew.
Yet we also come to see our God for what He is, in all of His Transcendent
Wisdom and Glory; in all of His Grace and Truth, and Love and Light. In
seeing Him as He truly is everything else is seen as it really is. Every
created thing, including ourselves, can be seen in its true light, the Light
of the Bright and Morning Star, the Daystar that scatters all darkness. As
there are so few distractions, everything in the wilderness is reduced to
the most basic of questions, like -
“Do you love Me more than those” and.
“Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge?”
My brethren, I am sorry if this seems so different from what you have been
taught to expect. Yet it is the truth and it is the Lord’s way. It is not
the church’s way, and so for the most part those affiliated with it will
spurn it, and judge it as illegitimate. Those who seek to save us from all
that such a wilderness will present, will obviously fight against it with
all they have. It represents no small threat to all organization and
mediated leadership; to the self-exalted priest class that has come to rule
so much of the body of Christ in our day.
Read Job’s account and affirm what some of us have already discovered in our
wilderness walk – that even God’s peace and presence is seemingly withdrawn,
causing us to question how much we really trust Him. Even when He withholds
the manifest evidence of His presence, when He appears to have turned His
back to us and stopped His ears, will we continue to bless Him and to love
Him? Despite an often prolonged and overwhelming sense of bewilderment,
discouragement, isolation and even guilt, will He remain our only Hope, our
Heavenly Father and Loving Shepherd? Will we hold fast to Him or let Him go?
Trust is often forged in darkness and silence, when our experience and
expectation of what this new life means appears to be in contradiction. My
friends – this reveals yet another aspect of God’s wilderness.
All of the so-called experts tell us how human beings innately require a
community; yet what happens when the Lord is our only community, when all we
have is Him, when even the ones we love abandon and forsake us? When all of
their words make us feel only guilt and even more bewilderment, when they
cannot seem to comprehend the legitimacy of what is happening to us. So much
easier to pray down God and all His angels to extricate us from our
isolation and hardship. And it is inconceivable to so many believers, not
knowing the Lord or His wilderness, that this very thing could be sanctioned
and even enabled by God Himself, out of His love and mercy for His beloved
children.
“I will build my church”, proclaimed the Lord Jesus Christ. Yet this is
apparently not good enough for the many man-size church-builders among us,
who seek to separate us from God with all their various methods and
mediators. By directing all of their resources at maintaining and
perpetuating their precious institutions, they fail to recognize that the
God they serve doesn’t care one bit for their institutions. He cares for His
children and will spare no effort – even resorting to the wilderness if
necessary – in building them up to perfection in His Beloved Son!
Hear this please, all those who have ears to hear. I believe the Lord may be
trying to get the attention of His people.
The Wilderness Part of God’s Larger Plan
We like to be busy don’t we? We almost have an inborn, driving need to
advance, to move forward, to do great things for the Lord. Results and
numbers and growth are the gilded idols of our day, and they have penetrated
the church of Jesus Christ.
My friends, if the Lord Himself was so concerned about tangible results and
numerical growth, then why did He choose to sideline the greatest evangelist
who ever lived? Why indeed did the Apostle Paul spend so much of his
ministry shipwrecked, on remote islands, and in prison when the entire world
awaited? Have you ever wondered about this? I have. Perhaps the Lord was
ministering unto Paul during this wilderness time? Perhaps He didn’t want
Paul to get too heady about all of the wonderful things (the results) God
was doing through Him? Perhaps our Lord was communicating intimately with
Paul some of the awesome concepts and revelations found today in His
epistles to the churches? Perhaps there were people and connections that
could only be cultivated there in the wilderness, off the beaten path, there
in the shadows?
My brethren – there really is so much the Lord does not allow us to see, in
terms of His larger plan, isn’t there? To our carnal nature, and to all that
we are as men and even Americans, this wilderness makes absolutely no sense
at all. We want to get into the game desperately, and yet the Lord wants us
on the sidelines, or maybe even outside the arena and cut off entirely from
all the action. He wants us to Himself. He wants to know if He is enough all
by Himself, independent of His gifts and blessings, and all of the noise and
trappings of religion and community.
But for how long, you say? Certainly not for years and years? My dear
brethren – it is up to Him entirely as our wise and loving Father. Consider
that David, running for his life from King Saul in the wilderness, could
have ended his isolation on more than one occasion. Yet he trusted in the
Lord, that at His appointed time, he would be restored to the fellowship of
Israel and his family. Keep this in mind when you are tempted to forsake the
wilderness on your own terms.
Consider Job’s friends who sought to persuade him to curse God and die.
Heaven is silent while the church is having a party down the block. What
will you do? You look for sense when nothing, not God, nor the situation
itself, makes any sense at all. Explanations are few, if at all. You can
either come to hate the wilderness and seek a way out, or you can trust He
who loves you enough to allow such things. His plan is so much larger and
wider and deeper than our loneliness and disillusionment. As God, He is
under no obligation to reveal all or even any aspect of it to us.
Is the devil in the wilderness? Likely He is. Yet the Lord and His angels
are there too, ministering to us, teaching us, tearing us down and binding
us up, comforting and communing with us, revealing His glory to us in quiet
revelation and intimate miracles. It is the place where a still small voice
can always be heard, where the grandest and god-sized things are reduced
down that we might grasp them and go with them. It is the barren and rugged
terrain of the prophet not the priest; where created things are laid naked
before the great “I Am”- that Awesome, Uncreated One who broods over all the
earth, seeking merely one who will prove faithful.
The Wilderness and His Remnant
My friends – I don’t pretend to see it all clearly yet, but I believe that
in these Last Days the remnant of the Lord (the few out of the many) will
commune with Him in the wilderness in preparation for His coming. Always
between the gardens is a wilderness, it seems, where saints have long
hungered and thirsted after God. Perhaps it is in the wilderness where the
Church and Israel are ultimately reconciled in the heart of God? The Book of
Revelation hints at this. Perhaps in these last tumultuous days, there is
spiritual and even physical protection to be found here for the Lord’s own?
Perhaps the true church of Jesus Christ has always been a wilderness people,
largely unreported, off the radar, disenfranchised, de-legitimized by
establishment and institutional Christianity? Quietly and faithfully and
simply, they go on serving the Lord in the back alleys of life, away from
the rush and clamor of church bells and choirs?
Is your faith rugged enough, my brother? Has it been tested by wind and
storm, my sister? Can you still follow Him without a scripted program, a
schedule, a holy day, a church bulletin? Can you worship Him without a music
director, without a big band and choir, without the predictable lyric of the
song sheet?
He is coming! And He will first come to His own. If this be true, and it is
- then where will they be found in these final hours of Adam’s reign? What
will be sustaining them as they wait patiently for Him – will it be the
bread from heaven and the water from the rock? Or will it be the delicacies
of Egypt – meat and wine that turns foul in their bellies? When all
mediators between them and God are removed, and He stands before them, will
they be able to recognize Him, and love Him, and hear Him? Will His sheep
follow Him at this time when their very lives will depend on it?
cindyinsd said
What an encouraging post! Thanks for sharing this, Frank. Once again, you’ve found the things that were banging around in my head. I take this as a confirmation of some of the things God has been saying to me. It would be difficult not to see it that way, as they are so remarkably similar. It’s amazing how God often talks to His people individually, without contact between us, and yet the same themes emerge from diverse places. Cool!
appolus said
Hi Cindy, isn’t amazing that the Holy Spirit is putting these exact themes in the hearts of His people all over the world? I think this only means that we are to ready ourselves as Christians. Its time to really focus in on what’s important, staying close to Him and throwing off all vestages of the world from our hearts………….Frank
timbob said
Good morning Frank. There is so much in this post that I don’t know where to begin. One thing, however, is this overpowering desire to be close to the Lord Jesus. This single thing will cause us to shed ourselves of everything that’s not of God. The comfort zone of a fleshly church will not satisfy us. The ramblings of those who seek a kingdom in this world will actually “wear us out.” Everyone in our ambience; even the professors of our faith, will think that we are out of sorts; thereby giving new meaning to ” a peculiar people.”
And yet this is a sweet place. A place of fellowship with the Creator of all that is and where nothing else holds any weight. The Lord is calling us close to himself in these final moments. May we all let go of any residual beholdings to the physical world and embrace this place of refuge.
Blessings always in Jesus name.
timbob
“freespirit” « Grace County said
[...] GOD IS CALLING HIS REMNANT OUT OF THE ESTABLISHED CHURCH [...]
appolus said
HI Timbob, your right, once we yield to this new place, it is a sweet place. Once we realize that God is taking us to a place of total dependence upon Him and that this is neccecary then we will begin to even rejoice. I think about Jesus being “driven,” into the desert. There He was tested and not found wanting. Now interestingly enough, that word driven or drove is the same word used to describe how Adam and Eve were ejected from the Garden. I wrote a piece on that one time. None of us go easily into this kind of desert………….Frank
Zec said
31 Once more a remnant of the house of Judah
will take root below and bear fruit above.
32 For out of Jerusalem will come a remnant,
and out of Mount Zion a band of survivors.
The zeal of the LORD Almighty
will accomplish this.
– Isaiah 37
appolus said
I would encourage readers to read Isaiah 51 when thinking about God’s remnant people of today………..Frank
That Which Remains « Grace County said
[...] into this post, a paragraph has been stuck in my head for about four days now. It’s found at Scottish Warriors site although it was written by W E Smith and it reads as [...]
martha norman said
Hi Frank: what a word! a word that is so needed to day.It reminds me of, where God says in his word to let no man say he is taught of his neighbor, because i will be his teacher. I will put my words in his heart, and all will know me,from the least to the greatest. Another place i read where God says,”this is the day of the independent investigation of truth.That we need to read the book of our own selves. That after we have learned our truth no one can take it away.meaning to search things out between god and you alone.I believe that the spirit of search is entering into the hearts of many, today. That is why people are not satisfied. i enjoyed the way you explained the wilderness experience because i have been there for a long time. i believe now i am coming out of it. Thank you again.Loving Christ love, martha
appolus said
Praise God Martha that you are coming out of it. God alone determines the time and we must walk the path that unfolds before us for His Word says that the steps of a righteous man or woman is ordered of God. You are not alone sister. If you search my site, put in “Are you a lonely Christian?” Its by Tozer, I think that it will really speak to you…………….brother Frank
cindyinsd said
Hi, Martha
Wow–I so feel for you. Like Frank said, Thank God you are coming out. I was talking to God about this a couple of days ago and I felt like He was saying to me that my own wilderness experience had been necessary because it was the only way to get me turned around from mistaken thinking about Him–the kind of legalism/theology/philosophy/religion thing I had believed was the essence of following Him. He expressed it as pushing the “reset” button.
I think your first verse is: Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
Maybe your second is: Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
It’s a wild guess, but the third is possibly a combination of: Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.
And: Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Yes, we do need to search the scriptures for ourselves and have that individual relationship with God. We also need one another to have that community relationship with Him and with each other. I’m not talking about sitting through a “church service,” but about actively sharing our whole lives with one another. Not always easy to find, but absolutely worth seeking out in prayer and in the brothers and sisters around us. God’s richest blessings.
Love, Cindy
martha norman said
Hi Frank: what a word! a word that is so needed to day. I started my wilderness experience in 2000, and it was just as you described it. I believe i am coming out of it,but still having challenges at this time. Thanks A Million,Martha
appolus said
Amen sister………….Frank
Christine said
I have just come from Sermon Index website to your website. I am Chrismo. (Christine) It is funny how things happen, about 2 1/2 years ago I believe that the Holy Spirit started to speak to me & draw me back to Himself, I was on a mountain top experience for about 1 year, I am so glad that God did this for me, as I drew so close to Him. I was then diagnosed with lymphoma & went through chemo, bone marrow tests, CT scans & having my stem cells removed. I know that if I hadn’t had this time with the Lord it would have been alot harder. I finished this in January & have a treatment once every 3 months. My husband & I feel like we have been going through a wilderness experience for at least 18 months now, with many challenging things happening in our lives. Sometimes I feel like I can’t do it anymore, I’m sure it is God’s way of trying to teach me not to rely on myself but to reply on Him alone. I know that I love Him & He is my very all. I know that He is calling His people back to Himself & that He doesn’t want us to be satisfied with the way things were. Blessings
appolus said
Hi Chismo, thankyou for dropping by here. Illness is very often a way that the Lord takes us through a wilderness experience. I had my own expreience with this early on in my Christianity. You can check out the story by using the search box at the top right hand corner, put in “Anatomy of a Miracle.” The desert experience . the wilderness experience, is to teach us to depend completely on Him. Remember, it was right after the Holy Spirit came down as a Dove that Jesus was “driven,” into the desert where He taught us how to rely completely on God. In the wilderness we are stripped of everything that we rely on. Please read also “Surrounded by a wall of fire” God bless you and your husband Chrismo. We are all learning to walk in a peace that cannot be shaken by circumstances. To be “anxious for nothing,” has to be learned and the only way that we can learn is by walking through the fire. Yet in order to walk in a peace that surpasses all understanding there is no other way than the way of the wilderness…………………brother Frank
If the Train is Going the Wrong Direction, Get off and Head the Other Way « Journey into the Son said
[...] And Frank’s: God is Calling the Remnant out of the Established Church [...]
Rachel said
OUTSTANDING POST!! We left the church system in 2004 as we heard the call out by God. And though it was tough at first b/c having grown up in the church it was an adjustment – but it has been beyond amazing. The intimacy with God is more than I every expected – b/c I never had it as I do now – and I still have so far to go. All what you said has been my thoughts and experience. My relationship with God is so grounded and real now because it is about Him and not the institution – it has changed my life.
Love your description of the wilderness and the significant role it plays in the scriptures. Also your insight about the numbers and it not being about the numbers – again powerful truth.
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. I truly enjoyed it. And thank you Cindy for sharing it on your site – which is powerful as well. It is an important message and I’m thankful for the courage and boldness of both of you in speaking the truth.
Fellow wilderness dweller,
Rachel
Janna said
Just thought I’d put a different perspective into the mix. Please know that I agree about a lot of things you say regarding the state of the church today. Biblical illiteracy is everywhere and many churches appear to be more like country clubs than houses of worship. However, I do think that we are still called to be in the local church rather than on our own. Can you please show me where God calls out a remnant to leave the church? Remnants are left over after a “judgment”, not those who fled. Check out the context of the remnant in Jeremiah, for example. God didn’t tell that group to go to Egypt, in fact he told them the opposite.
To the contrary (opposite of leaving and being on our own) God says “Two are better than one” (Ecc 4:9-10) and chastises shepherds (leaders/oversears…most likely the priests) for not tending to their flocks in Ezekiel 34. Additionally there are so many references to leaders in the new testament and the purpose of spiritual gifts to edify the church. Why would we need leadership and “Iron sharpening iron” (Pr 27:17) if we can learn and survive out on our own.
Respectfully said, when put in the whole context of scripture, I’m still not sure about your “argument” aligns with God’s will and Word. That’s just my perspective.
appolus said
Hi Janna, I appreciate the perspective that you have brought. I would not say that it is really different since I agree with all of what you wrote
You say that remnants are left over after judgement, I agree entirely. Perhaps I see a judgement having already taken place which you may not see, is that possible? The greatest judgment of all is that the presence of the Lord has departed. On this site there are so many posts to put this particular post in context , here are a couple………… http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com/2009/12/06/the-glory-of-gods-presence-has-departedbut-will-return/
http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/the-glory-of-gods-presence-is-departing/
There are many more Anna. Also Anna, we may disagree on what constitutes a local church. IN the NT, each town and city had one church, not churches. Now they often gathered in different homes, but there is not a single example of “churches,’ plural in the whole NT in regard to towns or cities, only regions. Each city and town had one set of elders and deacons and so on. When a notable came to speak, they would gather together. And size was not an excuse, some cities and 200,000-300,000 peope and still only one local church. And one last point Anna, I would never urge people to be isolated, yet I can sympathize with those who , for whatever reason, find themsleves in this position. I guess it goes to the heart of what one believes the “local,” church is. Is it the Protestant model that came out of the Reformation? Is it the Catholic model? Would you have made the same argument prior to the Reformation? Should people have stayed within the Catholic church and not “come out from her.”? Thanks again for your comments Anna, I truly apreciate them………………Frank
P.M.R. said
Janna,
i totally agree with you. Jesus nowhere tells His believers to come out of the church..as Believers WE ARE the church and we cannot come out from ourselves…I also do not believe that the Holy Spirit has completely left a large amount of church congregations, as there are in most churches at least a few remnants of true Believers..and wherever there is a true Believer, the Holy Spirit is also present, because He dwells within us.
The Word of God clearly tells us not to forsake the fellowship of Believers…Yes, I agree that the Holy Spirit is our Main Teacher but i cannot find anywhere in God’s Word where He tells us that we are to go out on our own and separate ourselves from the leadership and fellowship of His people ( Pastors, Teachers of the Word, other believers )…unless He calls us out from a certain congregation for obvious reasons, as He has our family 2 years ago…However, I believe if we seek Him He will lead us into a new congregation where His word is upheld fully….without leadership and other believers to which we are accountable, many of us are prone to be lead astray, or may even end up in a cult….let’s not make His Word say something, He never intended.
appolus said
PMR writes…………
“The Word of God clearly tells us not to forsake the fellowship of Believers”
Amen to that. The title of the post clearly specifies ” established,’ church. This word signifies churches and organisations established by men. Nowhere in the Scriptures do we see a ” denominational,’ model, where believers disagree on doctrine so they seperate, build walls, and go their own ways. I suggest the book ” The pilgrim church,” by Broadbent. It traces the church down through the ages, starting with the Apostles. Talks about many different groups including the Waldenesians, Hussites, Anabaptists and Moravians and so on. And remember, it was their enemies that named them. The point would be, that God always has had His people, and they always gathered together and what brought them together was their love and whole-hearted devotion to Jesus and the Word of God. Almost all of them faced death, first from the Catholic church, and then later from the Reformation church…………….Frank
Janna Rust said
Hi PMR…I like what you said. We might be called to leave a certain congregation for a time, as I think I was, but God does lead us back in to a new place. We are better together (more econonmies of scale) and our intimacy with God can be increased by “iron sharpening iron” within the context of the local church as the Holy Spirit uses others to work on us and challenge us.
Frank, as for my definition of a “local church”, it follows the example of the New Testament church. Paul wrote letters to various “churches”, Revelation mentions various “churches”. This indicates a group of people in a specific area. Whether that is our modern structure or not, I don’t know, but I do interpret the Bible to say that being a “member” of the global church – each to his own – is not what the writer of Hebrew’s meant when he said to not forsake the fellowship of believers.
As for judgment on the church, I still don’t think we are seeing judgment on the church. What we are seeing in the church is a consequence of sin because the church isn’t making disciples as it told to do. Where in the new testament do we see judgment on the church. Israel, “yes”, as we see in the O.T., but I don’t see it in the N.T. unless I’m missing something.
Duncan Pratt said
Jolly good Frank, one thing is for sure – the way to paradise is through the wilderness, and I advice all those that belongs, to imitate the actions of the remnant by; keeping the Ten commandments (Matthew 7:21), and by praying at all times.
I love and would like to utilise this quote in future
‘By much spiritual evidence and observation, the (church on the corner) is either dying or already dead. This is obvious and apparent to any with eyes to see, to those with true spiritual insight. Only those with a vested and carnal interest in perpetuating the corpse, and holding it up with strings will deny this‘.
Thanks for this note Frank and stay blessed, and remember always that salvation and the rapture have one thing in common -separation of powers.
appolus said
HI Duncan, I am sure you can quote it
Just give the authors name. ( I did not write this) Every now and again I include a piece that clearly witnesses with my spirit…………………….bro Frank
appolus said
Hi Janna, you did not address the points I made about the “established ,” church, man made institutions, as opposed to the fellowship of believers. Can I ask you a direct question? If you had been around 500 years ago, would you have stayed within the Catholic church, or would you have joined the reformers?
As for churches, just for the benefit of the readers, there is not one single example of the word “churches,” plural in the New Testement in regard to town or city, only in regard to region. In every town or city there was one church, one group of elders and even in those days they had cities of several hundred thousand people. I make this point only to point out that there was no “denominationalism,’ in the New Testement………..brother Frank
Janna Rust said
Frank, I think I did address your “established” church issue. There is obviously some form of organizational structure because Paul said in Ephesians that various offices were given to the churches to equip the saints, etc. Using common sense, if everyone was scattered globally, shepherding, equipping, etc. wouldn’t be very effective.
As for the reformers, I might have joined them…but still, they became organized to accomplish their mission. That’s my point.
Regarding “churches”, I didn’t look up the plural word in the concordance. Again, I’m using common sense. If you have “to the church at ______, _______, and ______” in various places in scripture, you have the plural…churches. Churches do exist. Maybe not in the same exact form as today, but similarly. Just a guess. I wasn’t around 2000 years ago.
In closing, I do appreciate this honest discussion. I’m keeping an open mind, within the context of the whole counsel of God and the whole theme of God’s word. I a
appolus said
Hi Janna, I appreciate the fact that you are keeping an open mind on this subject. Its a big subject and well worth the research. If I can draw the lense back, it may be of some use. There are fundamentally two points of view in regard to the present state of the ‘church.” One is, and we have found this all over the world, that the established church in the West is in deep trouble, is almost spiritually bankrupt, and looks just like the world, because of compromise and so on. Hence the divorce stats within the church being the same as the world, or in some case worse and so on. Some see the disaster and are crying out to God, some see no disaster and are going along as usual.
You will find not a single example of the plural word “churches,” in regard to town or city, only in regard to region. In each town and city in the New Testament, there was only one church, one set of elders. If a problem arose it had to be worked through, the answer was never to simply separate and form one’s own church…………brother Frank
Now for clarification, just because a group of believers gather, but are not part of the establishment, does not mean they are not organized. Being organized and being the “established,” church have no bearing on each other. When the reformation came, Luther was faced with a de scion, whether to establish a ” believers,” church or a “State,” church. He eventually chose the latter. (A good read on this is “The Cost of Discipleship,” by Dietrich Bonhoeffer, himself a Lutheran.)
The state church was run along similar principles to the Catholic church, not Biblical principals. At the same time there were many groups who rejected this, Moravian and Anabaptists to name but a few (they were named by their opponents) and they were hunted down and killed by both sides.
Now the larger point being, what is man made will eventually crumble and fall. Only what the Lord establishes remains. Many today see the established church, what might more commonly be known as the Evangelical church, crumbling and dying. This is not to be confused with the true church which of course the gates of hell cannot prevail against. So, will there be another reformation? Will God move in the visible church? Will there be a revival of Gods people prior to His returning? I believe that there will be, at the very same time as there is a great falling away. God always has His remnant people who do not compromise with the world. If you get a chance, please read the book “The pilgrim church,” by Broadbent. He traces the path of the church (not the Catholic church who hunted these others down mercilessly) from the time of the Apostles. Another good book would be ‘Foxes Book of Martyrs.”
Janna, I am concerned with the statement that you may have stayed within the Catholic church. We would just have to disagree strongly on that.
As for using common sense rather than your concordance, I would go with the concordance
Janna Rust said
But Frank, are you keeping an open mind? Just curious. It doesn’t seem so. I am sincerely asking questions and I’m coming from a strong biblical knowledge base as well. Thanks for your perspective on church history. I have read “Foxes” and to further make sure I wasn’t misunderstood, I said in my original comment that I would have joined the reformers, which is opposite of what you though I said above.
Respectfully,
Janna
appolus said
Hi Janna, with respect, if you look at your reply you said that you “might,” have joined the reformers. Hardly a direct answer to a direct question
Okay, so what I am hearing you say now is that you would have joined the reformers? Good. That was exactly what I was trying to get at. And so it comes back to my point about the perception one has about the state of the present “established,” church. 500 years ago people of God left the Catholic church because of the state of the Church, highlighted by Luther, a parchment and nail. If one considers the modern day church to be in a a similiar situation, then a similiar exodus is to be expected at some point, dont you think? Now, if you do not percieve that the modern day church, denominations across the board, are in a bad state, then I could see the objections……….brother Frank
W.E. Smith said
Dear friends, the principle of the remnant (something taken out and remaining of after a time of testing and proving, or something going first – both meaning are implied in a “remnant” or select portion) is seen throughout the Scriptures (a word study will convey just how prevalent this is, both historically and prophetically, and yet remaining). The first is with Eve (representing the Bride of Christ), taken out of the body of the man -
“So we see that the bride was prefigured there in the beginning in Genesis, in Eve, in the woman taken out of the man, the “isha,” long before Israel or the church. The bride was forever in view in terms of the Father’s plans for His beloved Son. The church is the spiritual body of the last Adam, the Christ, but it is the bride and the bride alone that will reign with Him in His soon-coming and age-lasting Kingdom. She is the one joined together with the Son of Man by the Father (Matt. 19:6), of which no man can separate. She alone seeks first His Kingdom and follows the King. She alone is enraptured of the King and will thereby be raptured first, prior to the beginning of the end of this age, which is nothing more or less than the woman taken out of the body and presented to the man. That, dear saints, is all that the rapture represents. She has come to Him (Matt. 11:28), and she remains, not turning back, not divided in her love, not placing other things in that preeminent place of her heart. She alone has lost her life in Him and found it again joined to His person as one spiritual body. She alone has entered through the narrow gate which leads to age-lasting life (Matt. 7:13-14). And she alone has forsaken this present world and all of its pleasures, all of its claims and rewards, for the heavenly reward, for the riches to come, for the hidden treasures.”
We also see the remnant or select portion in the harvest season and celebrations of Israel, specifically in the concept of the first fruits (that wichh ripens first). To bear this our I will insert a short writing by D.M Panton -
In dealing with the harvest ingatherings of souls unto God’s holy presence, before, after, and at the end of the great tribulation, we do well to keep before us the typical parallel of the natural harvests in Israel and the use which the Lord made of them. Each annual harvest season was celebrated in three ways -
First, “the first of the first-fruits” (Ex. 23: 19), ingathering, consisting of a bunch of ripe grain-forms tied in a bunch, and waved as a “hallel” before the Lord. That is a lovely type of our Lord’s resurrection, waved as the first begotten “[out] from the dead,” (Mark 9: 10) and waved too, on the anniversary day of this typical event.
Then fifty days later (Lev. 23: 15, 16), there was a second harvest ingathering, also called the “first fruits,” when sufficient grain was ripe to gather, mill, sift, and bake with leaven into two loaves. These loaves, like the wave sheaf, were also “waved” before the Lord, as a hallel of thanksgiving for coming harvest. And such is the type of the first fruits of the Spirit known as “the bride” or the “church of the firstborn” (Heb. 12: 23) who will be translated [or rapt] into heaven before the tribulation begins; these are those who are described as being arrayed in “fine linen, bright and pure: for the fine linen is the righteous acts of saints” (Rev. 19: 8), and who will “prevail to escape all these things [i.e., all the tribulation events] that shall come to pass,” (Luke 21: 36).
[Note: The difficulties which caused "questioning" amongst Peter, James and John, after seeing the "vision" (Matt. 17: 9) on top of the Mount, are the same difficulties which confront and cause questioning amongst disciples of Christ today: they never heard beforehand any teaching of a select resurrection: "Out from the dead."]
At the end of the great tribulation, when Christ descends from heaven to establish His millennial kingdom, He will also raise up the other loaf from amongst the dead in Hades who will have been judged by Him [before death] to “attain” – that is, as defined: “to gain by effort” – “unto the resurrection [out] from the dead” (Phil. 3: 11 cf. Heb. 11: 35), and who have “fallen asleep in Jesus,” together with those “who are left unto the coming of the Lord,” (1Thess. 4: 15).
Both loaves will be mixed and international in make up. There will be leaven in them on the presentation day, and yet acceptable to our Lord as “worthy” for reigning with Him in “the kingdom of Christ and of God,” (Eph. 5: 5).
Finally, there was a typical harvest in Israel, when the total harvest was ripe, and the vintage complete. This was celebrated in “the feast of tabernacles”, and was one of the longest and happiest festivals of Israel, and rightly so.* Its counterpart will take place, when the international multitude which no man can number, will be harvested from this earth and “Hades” and gathered before “a great white throne” (Rev. 20: 11, 13) – the throne of God – whose names, it is inferred, will be found written in “the book of life” (Rev 20: 15).
[ Note. The feast of tabernacles is also typical of the thousand year reign of Christ and His saints, (Rev. 20: 4-6).]
Owing to the absence of knowledge concerning the time period of tribulation prophecy, the disbelief today amongst Christians concerning the millennium, a lack of teaching about the intermediate state and place of the dead, and false teaching concerning the time of the “first resurrection;” Christians today cannot see or comprehend many of the conditional promises of God which He has addressed to His redeemed people; and the severe warnings of future punishment and loss for disobedient and “wicked” servants are conveniently and mistakenly passed on to the unregenerate, false professors, or to Israel.
For instance, before the tribulation there are saints, enraptured into the presence of Christ, (Rev. 3: 10). Then, at the end of the tribulation, there are a multitude of blood-washed souls and martyrs caught up to stand before the throne of God, (Rev. 6: 11; 20: 4). There is also a more limited company of redeemed ones named in Rev. 14: 1-5. This is followed by “the harvest of the earth”, which The Son of Man reaps in chapter 14: 14. And yet, again, in Rev. 15: 2 there is a special martyr group, “that came victorious from the beast, and from his image, and from the number of his name.”
Finally, – [a thousand years beyond all these separate groups of glorified saints, there is yet another great ingathering of un-named saints, who lost "the prize" (Phil. 3:14) but received by faith "the free gift of God" (Rom. 6: 23), and who enter "a new heaven and a new earth," (Rev. 21: 1).] – there are unripe ones; those sad redeemed souls who have disobeyed the precepts of Christ, resisted the urge of the Holy Spirit; whose will has not bent before Him. To such we would lovingly recall the words of our dear Redeemer in Rev. 3: 18, 19:
And again:
Open the door of your heart widely to Him as He knocks once again, and asks to be admitted to the throne of your being, (Rev. 3: 3, 20). Only as He is sovereign Lord can we find grace to “prevail to escape”. The darkness thickens, the fire increases, the wickedness grows, the tares mature; BUT THE GRAIN MUST RIPEN ALSO: through rain and sun, storm and heat, to glorious harvest, increase and fullness on every hand, to His glory at His appearing and also before the “great white throne”, (Rev. 20: 11).
[Note: By the word "saints" (1 Cor. 1: 2) here, I am describing sinners saved by grace of God through faith in our Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore all works after regeneration, whether good or evil, have no bearing on what all the regenerate receive as a "free gift" (Rom. 6: 23). Reformed theology teaches the contrary - that good works must accompany regeneration to show genuine discipleship! Such was not the case at Corinth where "saints" are described as "carnal" and "babes in Christ" fit for feeding only "with milk, not with meat; for ye were not able to bear it: nay, not even are ye able; for ye are yet carnal," (1 Cor. 3: 1, 2). These "saints" were living an immoral lifestyle: "It is actually reported that there is fornication among YOU . . ." (1 Cor. 5: 1). "Dare any of YOU . . ." (6: 1). "Or know YE not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?" (6: 9) etc. etc. It is a shocking to see so many "saints" of God who believe and teach the contrary!]
[Note. This message is based on the writings of D. M. Panton. All scripture quotations are from the Revised Version.]
Complimentary Messages by Lin Mize – The Coming Rapture and The Great Delusion
pete said
Oh my a dreadfull burdem has been lifted. I have been feeling out of it for some time now, unable to settle into church as it is. Tomorrow I will venture deeper into the desert than ever before, this time without water.
thanks, peter
David said
A Prophetic Word for America – a call to the remnant
This message was delivered in October 2004. It is based on a prophetic word given to Pastor John Mulinde of Uganda, Africa in 1996 for the United States of America.
Video:
http://vimeo.com/13665327
pete said
Wow, I watched and heard, there is a truth here that relates to the UK as well. I heard a message delivered to a the Church a few years ago, “the Church sits on the throne of Damocles”.
thanks
Cheryl said
Hi Frank,
Just stumbled across your post today and look it is October 27, 2010 and every thing you said was my answer to my prayer this morning. My husband and I have been called out of the Institutionalize Church since 2006. It has been and still is a wilderness journey but the heart of your post brought me to clearly see why God has guided us in this direction.
I will say it can be a very lonely place to be but oh how much we have learned in our private and personal time with the Lord. Thank you for sharing such an awesome description of God’s called out Remnant
appolus said
HI Cheryl , you can find more posts along this line of the site, here is one post that has several links to similiar posts http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com/2009/12/18/the-remnants-reformation/ brother Frank
Cheryl said
Thank you Frank, The links and topics are going to be such a blessing to my husband and me. I sometimes think I’ve missed something in not having communication with like minded people who can relate to being called out. My prayer is always asking God to help me and guide me and assure that we have done the right thing to come out of the church system.
I was very active in the church system and these years have been very different when most of the Christian friends and even family had turned away from us. In prayer I always ask the Lord to give me eyes to see other as He sees them…..to have ears to hear and know his still voice when I need an answer…to have the mind of Christ to think on things that would please Him….and to love others as He would.
Recently I have devoted any free time in the day or evening to seek Him and not be in tuned to radio, television, news…just seek God as the Holy Spirit directs. Sometimes it is reading and studying my bible, other times, I am searching other sites of ones that are out of the church system. Your site has so much for me to put things I have thought about and wanted to know more in depth in perspective. I want to really thank God for leading me to your site. May Glory and Honor be to our Lord Jesus Christ who saves us to the uttermost. Cheryl
appolus said
Hi Cheryl, if you get a chance, please listen to this message that was delivered last week at a revival conference. This is from one of my best friends. Its a powerful message to the church and to its remnant “A Desperate Hour Calls For A Radical Response by Brian Long”
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=20654&commentView=itemComments
We are going to hold a series of meetings next month down in Oklahoma.
Jill said
It was such a great encouragement to come across this site! 8 years ago I felt the Lord calling me out of the established church. It was such a shock! I cannot deny that I have found it very very difficult at times. I live in a small town with an unbelieving (and therefore very difficult)husband and two uninterested teenagers (at the moment!). I have also almost no contact with my former christian family, as I feel they just don’t understand why I left. I miss them dearly as I belonged to a very loving fellowship, but obedience to God must come fist. I have had much adversity financially and many tantrums along the way – it is a mixture of a wonderful fellowship with God who is in this experience showing his heart for his lost children – and a very painful dying to self. In your article, you have answered so many of my doubts – did God really ask me to leave my fellowship? Had I been decieved? Is there anyone else in the same situation out there? I cannot say – like all of us – that I fully understand God’s purposes in all of this – but I have found great comfort in reading this site. It would be good to share with others in the UK. Can anyone help me there? God bless.
appolus said
Hi Jill, good to hear from you. I am glad that you were encouraged. I am also involved in a site called sermonindex. You can find it at http://www.sermonindex.net. There are many Brits on that site. Check out the forum and put a request out there and see what comes back……..brother Frank
Lawrence said
Hi Frank.
That was an excellent word about the wilderness. I have spent the past 15 years there, yet during that time to the outside christian world they may not have noticed as I was involved in many successful ministries. God also unquestionably used me over many of those years to minister into the lives of others in the power of his Holy spirit. Yet personally in all that for me the heavens have been as brass. I now find myself away from all the family and friends I once had with all lifes comforts, to be in a strange foreign land. How long do you think a wilderness can last? I have walked with God and experienced his love and beauty in incredible measure, and I long for that again.
appolus said
Hi Lawrence. First of all, thanks for dropping by. As to the question of how long the wilderness experience can last, I really have no idea. What is encouraging about your reply was that you continue to serve God . I think of Psalm 57 where King David, writing from a cave, announces near the end of his psalm that “My heart is steadfast oh God, my heart is steadfast.” We see that even in the midst of darkness, David’s heart is steadfast. And of course, when Saul comes into another cave, David does the right thing by not killing him. This is a good model for us. I also think of Moses in the desert, the wilderness, for forty years after running away from Egypt. He served as a shepherd, a very lowly job, after the heights of Egypt, and then he has an encounter with the living God. The desert experience is a place where we are stripped and tested and tempted. In the end, it all comes down to just you and God. Total dependence upon the Lord, which is what, I believe, we are going to need in these last days. I can sense that your soul, like the deer panting after the waterbrooks, longs after the Lord. When He returns to you in this fashion brother, your heart will be overwhelmed. Yet as always, outr highest statement of faith can and must be “Even if He kills me , yet will I trust Him.” I think Job got it correct. I also like what the three young Hebrew men said ……….. Dan 3:17 If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king.
Dan 3:18 But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.
No matter what, these young men were bound and determined to follow their God. I also like waht David says near the end of Psalm 57 “I will awaken the dawn.” He begins to glorify God even while yet in the cave. God bless you brother………….brother Frank
Cindy Skillman said
Hi, Lawrence
Frank Viola said something that kind of jolted me about the wilderness time. In my own words, there is always a way out of the wilderness, but people aren’t always willing to pay the price. (Now his definition of the wilderness may be different from yours — he was talking about finding a group of brothers and sisters to worship with, not about having a sense of personally hearing from God, which he would, I think, call a dry spell.)
If you want to find like-spirit people with whom to worship and be built into the house of God, you may need to pack up your things and move somewhere. If that’s not too difficult for you, drop me a line at my website and I can get information for you as to where a group or groups you might be interested in visiting can be found.
Be blessed, brother!
appolus said
Hi Cindy, I think you have identified a valuable point. In any time there are seasons for Christians to walk through. And in those times sometimes we are in a wilderness of our own choosing, somehow we have cut ourselves off from God and only brokenness and a contrite heart will restore that. I think when Samuel confronted King David is a good example and David cries out in his psalm ” Create in me a clean heart oh God and renew a right spirit within me.” Restore unto me the joy of my Salvation,’ “Take not thy Holy Spirit from me.” And so undoubtedly David had lost the joy of His salvation and had lost his sense of God speaking to him through the Holy Spirit and had definately lost his joy.
Another kind of wilderness is the ” winter experience.” We know as Christians that there are seasons in our lives and we have to move through them. In fact most of our growth takes place in the winter seasons. We aslo know that the Holy Spirit ” drove,” Jesus into the desert for 40 days.
I think the last kind of wildernesss is the wilderness of the last days. A testing time for every genuine Christian, a time of preperation, preparing us for the times to come ( persecution I believe) I think that we should always gather together with like-minded believers. Now it is much harder to do that today, I believe, because so many churches are ” dead.” I hope Lawerance checks out the information that you can give him. God bless you sister………….brother Frank
Lawerence, we have a weekly call in prayer call. The info is on the banner of my site. You are more than welcome to join us.
Lawrence said
Hi Frank,
Thank you for your reply. Yes, it is true. The timeframe for the wilderness and the reasons for it will vary according to Gods purposes so it is difficult to offer advice without fully identifying the cause.
Thank you also Cindy but the wilderness I identify with cannot be filled by following man, as I have known and fellowshipped with the most Godly and humblest of men over the years, and none of this satisfied my soul.
I am sure Frank I identify with the third wilderness you describe as follows…..
“I think the last kind of wildernesss is the wilderness of the last days. A testing time for every genuine Christian, a time of preperation, preparing us for the times to come ( persecution I believe)”
I was reading Tozer’s writings on your site here, Are you a lonely Christian? It really should be about that for all of us I think. That nothing satisfies but walking in the moment by moment presence of God. Therefore we are set apart.
If there is a consolation in all this it would be that the preparation time is nearly completed because the last days are finally upon us.
PS. Frank, I could not access the Revival in China video?
Jo said
Thanks. Im right at the edge of this wilderness experience that you so eloquently describe. I have begun to feel very out of place at my church and have been gradually pulling away. i would like to find other believers in Massachusetts who are walking through this as well.
Shalom.
appolus said
Hi Jo, may the Lord bless you as you walk through this part of your journey ………………………..bro Frank
James said
I want to come out of the Church sytem, but where does one begin?
appolus said
Hi James, I suppose it depends upon what system one belongs. If for instance, one belonged to The Catholic church, then the most important issue woould be if one has been born-again at all. I guess the best way of coming out of a dead system is to find alive people. Now, its not always very easy to find people who know Jesus with a passion, but the Lord has His people everywhere. Often times there is a desert experience where one learns to depend upon the Lord for all things and then it is safe to go forward. I think of the Lutheren Church in Germany in the 30s. When Hitler came along, those within the Lutheren church had to make a decision on whom they would follow. And out of that was born the Confessing church who did not see themselves as some kind of schism but as the true church. Its not the buildings or the institutions or the rulers of said institutions that make up the true Church, it is genuinly saved people that make up the true Church. They are the priests and they belong to a royal priesthood according to the Word of God. So, wherever genuine Christians gather, there is the church. It may only be two or three but we know that where two or three are gathered that Christ is in their midst. So, where does one begin? One listens to how the Lord is leading them and they follow the Lord wherever He leads them…………..bro Frank